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OK, that's my headline for the mayor's dismal report on today's State of the City address. You probably can't find that headline anywhere else, but that doesn't mean it ain't the truth. It's just not quite the way these guys wanna frame it all up.

Yet.

But when you're $12 million in the hole for this fiscal year, and when you have to ante up a minimum of $6 million annually to bail out Bailout Arena, you tell me how I should look at it? It's not that the budget won't get balanced, because it has to--unlike the federal government, fortunately, a city or state can't print money. But here's the list of cuts mentioned in order to maintain Bailout Arena's subsidy:

* Social services
* Arts organizations
* Employee pensions
* Employee health care benefits

In other words, a lotta freeloading crap that combined doesn't even halfway measure up to the importance of helping an overpriced arena "break even".

It ain't that nobody knew that this would happen. You've had a few of us from day one predicting this stuff. You've had an economy THROUGHOUT THE FUNDING AND CONSTRUCTION PHASES provide a pretty questionable backdrop to a half billion dollar investment justified with future optimism and rosy scenarios. And now that same languishing economy is leading to the very financial issues in the community that will focus attention on where every penny is being spent.

I wonder if the current plight of the basketball team--grossly exaggerated and agonized over, in my opinion--will cause arena detractors to more quickly talk about the emperor and his missing royal vestments? I mean, this stuff does tend to feed on itself. One thing's for sure, any wiseguy arena dreamer thinking he can make a statement boycotting games needs to think twice about that strategy.

And what about that $30 million hole the mayor's projecting for NEXT year? I guess the good news is that Bailout Arena may only be responsible for about 20% of that.

I wouldn't get too comfortable, however, with that "everything is on the table" talk. Whoa!

Jim Host Hiding-Under-The-Table Arena

This post was edited on 1/12 9:05 PM by zipp

Posted on 1/12 9:02 PM | IP: Logged

grin

Off Topic Board PLEASE!



Posted on 1/12 9:08 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by zipp:
OK, that's my headline for the mayor's dismal report on today's State of the City address. You probably can't find that headline anywhere else, but that doesn't mean it ain't the truth. It's just not quite the way these guys wanna frame it all up.

Yet.

But when you're $12 million in the hole for this fiscal year, and when you have to ante up a minimum of $6 million annually to bail out Bailout Arena, you tell me how I should look at it? It's not that the budget won't get balanced, because it has to--unlike the federal government, fortunately, a city or state can't print money. But here's the list of cuts mentioned in order to maintain Bailout Arena's subsidy:

* Social services
* Arts organizations
* Employee pensions
* Employee health care benefits

In other words, a lotta freeloading crap that combined doesn't even halfway measure up to the importance of helping an overpriced arena "break even".

It ain't that nobody knew that this would happen. You've had a few of us from day one predicting this stuff. You've had an economy THROUGHOUT THE FUNDING AND CONSTRUCTION PHASES provide a pretty questionable backdrop to a half billion dollar investment justified with future optimism and rosy scenarios. And now that same languishing economy is leading to the very financial issues in the community that will focus attention on where every penny is being spent.

I wonder if the current plight of the basketball team--grossly exaggerated and agonized over, in my opinion--will cause arena detractors to more quickly talk about the emperor and his missing royal vestments? I mean, this stuff does tend to feed on itself. One thing's for sure, any wiseguy arena dreamer thinking he can make a statement boycotting games needs to think twice about that strategy.

And what about that $30 million hole the mayor's projecting for NEXT year? I guess the good news is that Bailout Arena may only be responsible for about 20% of that.

I wouldn't get too comfortable, however, with that "everything is on the table" talk. Whoa!

Jim Host Hiding-Under-The-Table Arena

This post was edited on 1/12 9:05 PM by zipp


wrong again

Posted on 1/12 9:15 PM | IP: Logged

PLEASE
PLEASE MOVE
PLEASE MOVE ALL
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS NON
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS NON-SENSICAL
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS NON-SENSICAL ARENA
PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS NON-SENSICAL ARENA RANTS !



Posted on 1/12 9:28 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by KerryRhodes:
...PLEASE MOVE ALL OF ZIPPS NON-SENSICAL ARENA RANTS !
Odd, but it appears that it's just the responses to zipp's posts that look like SHOUTED "nonsensical rants".

Jim Host If-We-Make-Enough-Noise-We'll-Drown-Out-zipp's-Points Arena

Posted on 1/12 9:35 PM | IP: Logged

Damn I was hoping Zipp's New Year's resolution was to give his one man tear down the arena crusade a rest. Here's hoping for 2013!



Posted on 1/12 10:14 PM | IP: Logged





Posted on 1/12 10:51 PM | IP: Logged

God I am tired of this subjectchairshot

Posted on 1/12 11:10 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by jim57:
God I am tired of this subject...
Sorry, but Bailout's not even two years old. This baby's just a baby.

Jim Host A-Long-Freakin'-Grind-Ahead Arena

Posted on 1/12 11:36 PM | IP: Logged

Yawn!

If I recall in its first year the arena took in more money than the projections (aka a profit).

Our arena is doing quite well. Thank you for playing, as a consolation prize you get the home addition of Louisville Cardinal Basketball that you can enjoy in the privacy of your humble abode.

This post was edited on 1/12 11:42 PM by SR_Card

Posted on 1/12 11:42 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by SR_Card:
...If I recall in its first year the arena took in more money than the projections (aka a profit).

Our arena is doing quite well...

SR, that's the illusion these arena guys have created. "Profit" includes all the money the City kicks in each year. It's an illusion that the arena is standing on its own.

Hardly.

The way they're doing the accounting, if it "breaks even", it means that the arena's taking in six million LESS than it's paying out each year. That six mil is coming from the City. And as that State of the City address hinted, from the pockets of city employees (among other places). How many years do you think that goes on before the push back starts?

No question, the arena's standing. But the real action is just starting. Gonna get interesting.

Jim Host God-I'm-Tired-Of-This-Subject Arena

Posted on 1/13 12:15 AM | IP: Logged

Take a couple of valiums and shutup about it...geez!rolleyes

Posted on 1/13 1:05 AM | IP: Logged

How mnay years will this go on? The Arena isn't going anywhere and it has been a huge hit with fans and downtown businesses. No other structure could have had such an impact. There massive is dining/drinking money that was not being previously spent at FH. So be honest about any "bailout money" or subsidies to help Yum if there actually are any. It is called INVESTMENT and it is done like this all over the country. The city is benefiting tremendously. Yum is not causing all the programs you mentioned to be cut. All cities everywhere are experiencing tough times due to high unemployment and less tax revenue. Tell the whole stroy if you are capable and you are.



Posted on 1/13 1:11 AM | IP: Logged

Now, we're talkin'! At least one guy is willing to start with the pro-arena arm waving!!...

Originally posted by Big East Card:
How mnay years will this go on? The Arena isn't going anywhere...
I think I've already answered this question...years...YEARS. The project has a planning life of more than twenty IIRC, probably more like thirty. Not that I think I'll have to beat the drum that long. If the City keeps bleeding money everywhere like it is, nobody's gonna be waiting very long to deal with the bleeding at 2nd & Main. And as to the arena "going anywhere", obviously not. But that's irrelevant.

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...it has been a huge hit with fans and downtown businesses. No other structure could have had such an impact. There massive is dining/drinking money that was not being previously spent at FH...
East, that's nothing BUT arm waving. I give you millions in red ink, you give me rhetoric. You can do better than that. (But at the moment at least, you are the one guy trying...)

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...So be honest about any "bailout money" or subsidies to help Yum if there actually are any...
If you'd like, I'll reference the Leib Report for the 50th time or so... There is no IF as to subsidies. It's there in black and white. At least six million, as much as ten million annually if needed. (Wanna bet it's eventually "needed"?)

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...It is called INVESTMENT...
You may not be a finance guy, so we'll talk definitions here for a minute... "Investment" is something you do up front to get something in return. There was almost a half billion sunk into this thing at the outset that, for the sake of argument, we'll call the investment. (Though needing a subsidy every year begs the question of where's the "return".) You don't "invest" money along the way to keep the "investment" afloat. That sounds more like a Ponzi scheme to me at the expense of taxpayers.

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...it is done like this all over the country...
Geez, now I wonder why so many other places "all over the country" are in the $hitter? Your comment's more of an INDICTMENT than it is an explantion or justification.

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...The city is benefiting tremendously...
"How much longer" will this arm waving go on?

Originally posted by Big East Card:
...Yum is not causing all the programs you mentioned to be cut. All cities everywhere are experiencing tough times due to high unemployment and less tax revenue. Tell the whole stroy if you are capable and you are.
The cynic in me concedes that ALL governments have financial issues. They don't know how to do anything else. (I might also add, as evidence of that, they do things like build arenas.) And while a headline like mine might be more attention grabber than reality, there's no question that the City's deficit would be less without the arena. To the tune of six million that's pretty easy to identify!

What I have always said is that WHEN--NOT IF--the arena's and the City's financial issues are brought to bear, the questionable finances that built Bailout Arena will get more and more scrutiny. Just wait for it--and of course, debate me in the meantime.

BTW, nobody's getting a pass on the "tough times" explanation for the arena's situation. Everyone behind this project covered their eyes and held their noses back in 2008 when the nation's financial system melted down. And they watched Jimbo go around unabated, knocking on doors, hat in hand, asking for hundreds of millions to be loaned to the LAA to build it. Couldn't care less what the hell he was doing, whether it was ill advised or not. Sorry, that "tough times" dog don't hunt.

But good job, East. You're at least stepping up to the plate. Even while striking out miserably.

Jim Host Where's-Our-Ace-Reliever? Arena

This post was edited on 1/13 2:37 AM by zipp

Posted on 1/13 2:25 AM | IP: Logged












Posted on 1/13 8:26 AM | IP: Logged

I say we put slots in the YUM! to help pay for it!

laugh

Give us something to do during the games this year.



Posted on 1/13 9:19 AM | IP: Logged

Zipp has finally convinced me. Clearly the only solution is to destroy the Arena.

Oh, that wasn't your point? Sorry; one must be manufactured, you see, from a rambling diatribe inspired by no more than the "I told you so!" mentality of a toddler. Otherwise, you're left with what adults like to describe as "lacking a point."

Or, more succinctly: blah blah arena blah lpt



Posted on 1/13 9:36 AM | IP: Logged

sleepy



Posted on 1/13 11:08 AM | IP: Logged

The restaurants downtown are packed every time we go to a ball game and we usually arrive an hour and a half early and still can't get in so we just go to the arena and eat there. Sounds to me like the arena is bringing in a lot business.



Posted on 1/13 11:23 AM | IP: Logged

I think you are stretching way too far. Let it go Zipp!

Posted on 1/13 11:27 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by woodturner10:
The restaurants downtown are packed every time we go to a ball game and we usually arrive an hour and a half early and still can't get in so we just go to the arena and eat there. Sounds to me like the arena is bringing in a lot business.
With generous assumptions favorable to city revenues it would take around 14,000 incremental city restaurant workers to pay for a $6 million portion of the shortfall with occupational taxes.



Posted on 1/13 11:50 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by gamedaynut:
With generous assumptions favorable to city revenues it would take around 14,000 incremental city restaurant workers to pay for a $6 million portion of the shortfall with occupational taxes.
Save it gameday... These boys just wanna keep their arena buzz, wave their ams, and shoot the messengers over and over and over. Only when they see padlocks on the doors will their reality become obvious to them.

And of course, it's too late by then.

Jim Host We'll-Hold-Your-Arms-Up-For-You Arena

Posted on 1/13 11:56 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by corned__beef__:
Zipp has finally convinced me. Clearly the only solution is to destroy the Arena.

Oh, that wasn't your point? Sorry; one must be manufactured, you see, from a rambling diatribe inspired by no more than the "I told you so!" mentality of a toddler. Otherwise, you're left with what adults like to describe as "lacking a point."

Or, more succinctly: blah blah arena blah lpt



Zipp really only wants to destroy Jim "owns Zipp's @$$" Host. He's had that whole "Host lied" angle going on for years.



Posted on 1/13 12:00 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by meltdown213:
Zipp really only wants to destroy Jim "owns Zipp's @$$" Host. He's had that whole "Host lied" angle going on for years.
Side issue, but you do you know you're jumping on an LPT horse, right?

Jim Host We'll-Take-Help-Anywhere-We-Can-Get-It Arena

Posted on 1/13 12:05 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by zipp:




Originally posted by gamedaynut:
With generous assumptions favorable to city revenues it would take around 14,000 incremental city restaurant workers to pay for a $6 million portion of the shortfall with occupational taxes.


Save it gameday... These boys just wanna keep their arena buzz, wave their ams, and shoot the messengers over and over and over. Only when they see padlocks on the doors will their reality become obvious to them.

And of course, it's too late by then.

Jim Host We'll-Hold-Your-Arms-Up-For-You Arena

Not to mention, those benefits were already included in the bogus arena financial analysis.

Remember the TIF sucked in just about everything, right down to that stick of gum you bought at 4th & Liberty.

Jim Host We-Got-The-Seelbach-Shoeshine-Boy-Covered-Too Arena

Posted on 1/13 12:10 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by zipp:

Originally posted by meltdown213:
Zipp really only wants to destroy Jim "owns Zipp's @$$" Host. He's had that whole "Host lied" angle going on for years.
Side issue, but you do you know you're jumping on an LPT horse, right?

Jim Host We'll-Take-Help-Anywhere-We-Can-Get-It Arena



Zipp-bashing extends beyond rivalry boundaries. It's the great uniter.

arena lpt arena host



Posted on 1/13 5:02 PM | IP: Logged

Well I've been hearing these predictions of doom for the past 3 years. By everyone's account (except yours) the areana has been a smashing success. E.g. UofL tickets sales are very good, more events have been scheduled that projected, tax revenue in the special taxing district is solid, redevelopment in the area surrounding the arena is moving forward despite a weak economy.

I just don't seem to get a vibe of impending doom, sorry.

But just to help you out with your cries of "the end is near" here are some things you can throw out there to keep your torch of disaster aflame:

*Anciet aliens have target the Yum site as their future home base.
*River Fields is going to declare it a conservation area and file papers to give it to some wealthy family from the east end
*Obama will make it a shelter for homeless liberals
*David Copperfield will make it disappear and then not return it.
*The arena is full of asbestos and they are putting it in the tacos
*UofL is going to end their sports program and sell Yum to some rich guy from Brooklyn who is going to turn it into a giant flea market.

...Ooooh I could go on, but I won't.

Sorry that the new arena isn't your cup of tea. No one is forcing you to buy a ticket.I'm sure that there are others who aren't sold on it. But you have to admit, all your predicitions of impending doom have fallen flat.

You might as well come on over to the dark side, its okay, we won't tell on ya. You might even like it.

Posted on 1/14 1:24 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by SR_Card:
Well I've been hearing these predictions of doom for the past 3 years. By everyone's account (except yours) the areana has been a smashing success...
Arm waving thus far...

Originally posted by SR_Card:
...E.g. UofL tickets sales are very good...
Your only point I'll come close to conceding... Ticket sales STARTED OUT good. Take a look around the upper arena for most games. See how season ticket renewals run from one year to the next. This particular story's gonna take awhile to play out. Said another way (as I already have)...what's going on in the upper arena will be the elephant in the room at Athletic Dept. Board Meetings over the next few years.

Originally posted by SR_Card:
...more events have been scheduled than projected...
Sorry man, you're gonna need some hard data on that one.

Originally posted by SR_Card:
...tax revenue in the special taxing district is solid...
Last newspaper comments I read from Jimbo, this particular "revenue source" was very disappointing. So, where are you reading something different?

Originally posted by SR_Card:
... redevelopment in the area surrounding the arena is moving forward despite a weak economy...
That's nothing that can be put in the bank per se. Could also well turn out to be OVER-development.

...And the rest of your post is just fluff. You offer nothing but arm waving and limited evidence that runs CONTRARY to what has already been reported by no less than arena self-interests themselves.

The biggest concern you should have is the transitive nature of this information. If U of L is coming anywhere close to realizing the NET windfall financially that a few people in this space believe, guess where they'll go looking for the pensions and health care benefits about to be confiscated from public sector employees?

Not the LAA, they're almost broke.

Jim Host Blame-It-On-U-of-L Arena

This post was edited on 1/14 2:04 AM by zipp

Posted on 1/14 2:03 AM | IP: Logged

"That's nothing that can be put in the bank per se. Could also well turn out to be OVER-development."

I don't know the amount but I'm certain that the leasehold improvements will end up in the city coffers via property taxes

Posted on 1/14 8:34 AM | IP: Logged

Maybe they can cut back on those granite curbs downtown and just sub contract some jobs to private industry instead.



Posted on 1/14 12:55 PM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by Knucklehank1:
...I don't know the amount but I'm certain that the leasehold improvements will end up in the city coffers via property taxes.
I don't know the amount, but I'm certain that some--maybe a lot--of the increased business activity downtown is simply transferred from other parts of the local economy.

And even if it inflates the arena TIF, Metro government doesn't collect property taxes from abandoned or depreciated commercial property located THROUGHOUT Jefferson County. The TIF is local--that $12 million deficit this year and $30 million next, per the Mayor, is county wide.

Jim Host Outta-One-Pocket-And-Into-The-Other Arena

Posted on 1/14 6:45 PM | IP: Logged

Zipp my man I an going to counter your 6 mil the city has to give toward Yum with the over 60 million the city has to pay the firefighters in back overtime and attorney fees. This could have been settled over 10 years ago for 10 mil. THe payment this fiscal year alone was over 15 mil.

I went to public scholls but I am thinking they would have a 3 mil surplus without the 15 mil payment.



Posted on 1/27 12:20 AM | IP: Logged

I don't think Zip cares about the rest of the budget issues, just the one that cardinal fans get to enjoy.



Posted on 1/27 8:23 AM | IP: Logged


Originally posted by meltdown213:
I don't think Zip cares about the rest of the budget issues, just the one that cardinal fans get to enjoy.
This reminds me of timeless zipp-ism no. 671...

"Most decisions--and most of life, for that matter--play out at the MARGIN."

In other words, don't tell me how much revenue something like Bailout Arena is bringing in. Tell me how much they're SHORT. It's like one of my tenants owing me $1,200 in rent and explaining, "well I'm paying you a thousand!" OK, as long as the guy I owe $200 to is willing to write off my obligation.

Sunshine's firefighters anecdote also reminds me--I find myself reminiscing on Fridays!--of the classic LPT comeback to their cheating indictments..."Everyone else is doing it too!"

So, if the City is in the hole, and an even deeper Bailout Arena hole next year, all I gotta do is think about those many other ways our government loses and wastes money in order to feel better.

And I label LPT fans "delusional".

Jim Host They're-Worse-Than-Us Arena

Posted on 1/27 2:43 PM | IP: Logged

flush

This post was edited on 2/26 2:18 AM by jvolk



Posted on 2/25 7:10 PM | IP: Logged

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